Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October 5, 1998.

Re: drawCalendar Flaw

Author:Dave Winer
Posted:12/11/1999; 7:03:16 AM
Topic:drawCalendar Flaw
Msg #:13560 (In response to 13558)
Prev/Next:13559 / 13561

Before you jump all over us (a "flaw"?) consider that it's only been 10 days since this software shipped. Look at all we've done in those 10 days.

Andrew, see if you can find a way to make this a win-win. The stuff about "branding" is total BS. If you want to have a conversation with us, start by leaving out the theories. We're right here. Ask questions.

What damage has been done to you Andrew? What do you want us to do? Should we write code that reads your website and finds the tags and breaks it up and puts it in the calendar? For 10 days worth of content? There's no way we're going to do that, btw.

Talking with a friend on the phone the other day she asked "When are you going to celebrate?" Right on. We're just human beings here, I think this has been overlooked too many times. Ask yourself, net-net, how is UserLand doing? If the answer is "pretty good" then try to adjust your tone and attitude accordingly. On our side of the fence we're all on the edge of burnout. I don't want a parade, but I won't respond to intimidation either.

If the answer is something like "they're out to screw me" then run! Don't stop to complain. I don't think there's any circumstance that justifies the approach you've taken with us here.

I'm reminded of the flamewar that came when we shipped Frontier 5. We learned a lot from that experience. We decided then that we will work with the people who work with us. You want to set up a commercial hosting service around Manila, that's great! If you don't do it, that's OK too. If you want to set up a business around our software then a business-like demeanor is *required*. If I flew off into hyperspace with every vendor of ours on every "flaw", our vendors would drop us in a heartbeat. I've been pushed this way myself. Learned over and over, you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar. Save the silver bullets for times when it's really important.

Thanks for listening.

BTW, now that I've dealt with all the extra stuff you've thrown in, look deeper at how the calendar works. Note that it is totally subject to customization. We just need to create a path for the Manila user or developer to do that.

However, we won't do that quickly. You've been in the loop here long enough to know how this works. If we moved too quickly we'd make changes that were unsupportable over time. First we have to understand the need, and have a plan for supporting it. I've put the brakes on a lot of stuff in the last week or so, because I don't want to create a confusing unsupportable mess of stuff that will break in the future.

Also, to your investors -- sites are going to start following a common design pattern. There are only so many ways to do a calendar. Why do the calendars on Dan Bricklin's site look so much like the calendars on a Manila site? Because there's a standard look to a calendar. Study the history of software, esp in the period between 1984 and 1990. Standardized look and feel was the major selling point in that period, the basis for competition. That will happen in the web too.

The web is leaving its wild and wooly stage. A year ago if you had said Netscape has to restart you would have been burned at the stake. Nowadays it's conventional wisdom as reflected in many of the comments here over the last few days. If everyone is going to have a website that's easy to update, then what's needed is exactly what Manila is doing, standardizing common elements. That's what makes it easy to create a Manila site. That's why you don't have to be an HTML coder or template designer to get from start to "It Worked" in a few seconds.

I have a lot more to say about this and will say it. This is a change in the way the web works. When there's change, people get upset. I've learned to live with that. The world isn't fair. Eventually you will forget how innovative Manila was (it seems to already be happening!) and will just focus on the flaws. Forgive me if I am not enthusiastic about that process.

BTW, people got upset in 1984 when standardized look and feel was the popular mantra. I was one of those people. I got over it and made millions of dollars on that idea. You can too.

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