Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October 5, 1998.

scriptingNews outline for 10/2/2000

Author:Dave Winer
Posted:10/2/2000; 6:01:58 AM
Topic:scriptingNews outline for 10/2/2000
Msg #:21859
Prev/Next:21858 / 21861

DaveNet: Integrity, Money and the Web.

The Picasso story in The Paper was even more interesting. He didn't pay the bill. He just did a sketch for the restaurant. A Picasso sketch was worth more than $9K, obviously. I corrected the DaveNet piece so I won't get emails on this into the next millenium. ";->"

A big Manila enhancement 

Tonight we're going to deploy a new feature for UserLand-hosted Manila sites, and distribute it through updates to Frontier servers running Manila outside UserLand.

Before I hype it, let me say that it only works for people who edit their sites with MSIE 4 or greater on Windows.

The feature is WYSIWYG editing. When you edit a page in a Manila site, if you're the type of person who doesn't like to look at HTML tags, now you won't have to.

Hey it's shipping. Here's a screen shot of the wizzy editor, and a shot showing the ugly stuff it hides. Here's the page I was editing, just to prove it's for real.

While you wait 

While you're waiting for wizzy editing in Manila, if you're a developer working with Radio UserLand, you definitely must check out the new Tools feature that shipped earlier today.

Guest databases come to Radio UserLand, and a new folder called the Tools folder. Each database can have data, nodetypes, HTTP responders, XML-RPC handlers, SOAP handlers, a suite of scripts, a menu of commands, a thread that runs in the background and a Website Framework website. Every trick the pros use. And the really cool thing about Tools is you don't have to link these babies into the right places in Radio.root, that's done automatically. It's never been easier to extend the environment. If you're a Frontier 4 user, hanging out waiting until all the michegas is sorted out, now's the time. Go go go!

A breath-taking experience 

Knock at the door. A courier. Please sign for this. On the outside of the envelope, "Attn: Service Agent". It's from Wilson Sonsini, a famous Silicon Valley lawfirm. Service agent! (I'm being served.) Not a good thing.

Should I sign for it or not? Maybe Conxion is suing me? Maybe I've infringed on a patent? As I open the envelope I wonder how my life is changing.

All for naught. I forgot to send back my release for the merger of Peer Logic with Critical Path. It's a late notice. Easy to deal with. Just like the water bill, or PG&E. I signed the form and mailed it back. Life is good.

ebXML will not use SOAP 

SD Times: "The SOAP architecture, in which Microsoft has played a leading role and which had been under consideration as a possible transport mechanism for the messages by the TRP group, was rejected as being too closed an architecture for the stated open and collaborative direction of the ebXML initiative. Instead, the ebXML initiative chose MIME-XML technology to wrap and send the message."

This wasn't a surprising development. The goals of ebXML, as far as I can tell, are much more complex than those of SOAP. Further, the things that ebXML does that SOAP doesn't, put it squarely against BizTalk and UDDI, all the extras Microsoft and the B2B vendors are adding to SOAP. (That's probably what the "too closed an architecture" comment is about.)

These are of no more concern to me than the things ebXML does. I am not a B2B technology vendor, and I'm happy to have compatibility with Microsoft's software at the SOAP level, for now; and I think that some parts of Microsoft will produce software that our stuff will connect to.

I'm looking for a mass market, something like the Web browser was in 1994, but coming from lots of independent developers working together. I get excited when I hear that people like Philippe Kahn and Rohit Khare (and three other genius-level developers who must remain nameless at this time) are building user-level products around SOAP, and nothing more than SOAP.


SOAP is a remote procedure calling protocol, as I see it, it's not doing the same things as ebXML. I'm sure their goals are noble, and the software and services they deliver will be useful, but I'm interested in the Internet as a creative environment, so I see SOAP differently, to me, it connects user-level tools into clouds of content. My vision is far more focused than the Dot-Net vision, and the (apparently competitive) ebXML vision.

It can be so simple, just do the things we were doing with COM and Apple Events, but do it over the Internet. No lock-in. Happy users. And to open source developers, this can be a basis of friendship. IBM's SOAP implementation is open source. Let's get all the environments wired up and validated, and start building great reliable clouds for all the users who will soon be running SoapWare on their desktops.

(I checked, SoapWare.Com and SoapWare.Net are taken.)

Random notes 

Jim Flanagan: "The Internet interprets Dave Winer having a bad day as damage and routes around it."

Our servers are getting pounded by spiders again. I wish they would crawl during off-hours, not primetime.

Survey: How do you feel about the vacation for the DG?

Tog: Why is Apple in Trouble?

Fortune: 50 Most Powerful Women in Business.

XPL is an "open source initiative, to make a programming language that is an application of XML." Interesting idea.

Dictionary.Com on "integrity."

Hey, it looks like I'm going to the Giants-Mets game on Wed. Let's go Mets!

Info Today: eMedicine Receives Patent for Internet Publishing Software. “The software is unique—it is the only enterprise software that allows all production to take place on the Internet.” Hmmm.

NY Times: I was a Playboy reader for the FBI.

Oh the joy of being read by a thoughtful person. Doc hits the nail on the head. There is no Microsoft in Web content tools, nor is there likely to be. Remember about the Internet and outages, and what it does to them. This is part of the "grain" of the Web too.

Baseball and politics 

The Major League Baseball playoffs start tomorrow. Braves, Cardinals, Mets, Giants, Yankees, As, Mariners, White Sox.

Isn't it weird that we have so many major league baseball teams, but only two major league political parties?

Instant Runoff Voting might get us more political parties.

Radio UserLand 

A new feature on OurFavoriteSongs.Com. It can now render OPML files in HTML. This opens a small door for the Radio UserLand people to write for people who don't have RU. It's a necessary bootstrap, not a purist's solution.

BTW, I'm still thinking about what Radio UserLand will be when it grows up. The Tools feature gives the users a chance to think about what I'm thinking about. (It should go out today, Murphy-willing, of course.)

The CMS list and me 

What Cam says on the CMS list is a partial telling of the story. He had special terms on my participation, that were off the wall, so I said no, I'll read the archives, which is working out pretty well. However, I wish the archives were up to date. It's only reflecting messages that were posted last Thursday.

BTW, imho, every list has a different culture, and I try to respect that. FoRK is a free-wheeling list. It's a good place to bring tough issues, you'll get flamed, for sure, but a large number of smart people are there, and the list cuts through the BS pretty quickly. The CMS list is quite different. I mostly listen there, to get an idea of what system developers are thinking about, I've learned a tremendous amount just from lurking on the list.

Perhaps there's a need for a CMS vendors list, also professional, where vendors talk among ourselves about standards and other issues we can address as a group.

This page was archived on 6/13/2001; 4:56:54 PM.

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