Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October 5, 1998.

scriptingNews outline for 3/10/2001

Author:Dave Winer
Posted:3/10/2001; 5:48:46 AM
Topic:scriptingNews outline for 3/10/2001
Msg #:22110
Prev/Next:22109 / 22111

DaveNet: We're not so different.

DizzyD talks about Jabber as middleware. As I understand it, we could use Jabber to transport XML-RPC and SOAP messages. Instead of sending a procedure call to an IP address, or domain name, you'd send it to a Jabber user. This would allow us to design groupware applications that reach any desktop Jabber can get to, and it would allow you to move around. (You'd have to have the groupware software on every machine, though.)

Eric Raymond: "Most of these products had nothing to do with the development of the Internet. Come on, Dave, you can do better than this. Building bridges is all very well, but when you start naming things like PhotoShop as Internet building blocks you're going off the deep end to make a point for which there are much better arguments."

Eric's comment shows how much work we have to do to get the respect commercial developers deserve. To leave PhotoShop off a list of Internet development tools is to miss that graphics are a big part of what makes it work. Even programmers need to edit GIFs. Designers couldn't work without PhotoShop or something like it.

Michael Neumann: XML-RPC for Ruby.

Giles Turnbull: "I'd like to see some corporate sites that are more like weblogs."

Simon Fell: "So, following all the fuss on the SOAP list over WSDL, I thought I'd have another look at the current WSDL tools, to see if they've improved at all since last time I looked, here's a brief summary of what I found."

NY Times: For Rock Bands, Selling Out Isn't What It Used To Be. "All this soundtrack and advertising work creates a musical middle class that's not dependent on selling records at all."

Note that yesterday's News.Com article about SOAP gave us credit. Thanks. If it was worth noting in absence, it's worth noting in presence.

Black Hole Brain may be The Void of Knowledge, but it's funny!

Scottish Lass: "Dave's product announcements always make me feel like it's Christmas and there's a treat under the tree waiting to be unwrapped!" Nice.

Next step in Radio. Jake has been working on a way to grab a Manila site and turn it into a folder of XML files for import into other content management software. I see this right at the edge of what we do at UserLand. Ideally, a group of users and competitors in content management should be doing this work with us. But it's important so we're going to get the process started. Hopefully other CMS vendors will offer their users freedom of choice as well.

I had a great meeting yesterday with Jeremie Miller of Jabber.Org. Our talk was wide-ranging. I don't want to speak for Jeremie, so I won't say "we" in any other context other than this -- we're going to write some software, and I think it's going to be of interest to people in XML-RPC and SOAP. I want to open some closed boxes, to move stuff around between people no matter where they are. Jabber has solved problems that we never attempted to solve, and vice versa.

I've actually known him for a lot longer than I thought. He wrote one of the first XML parsers, back when we were trying to figure out what XML is. His parser was written in JavaScript and ran in the browser. I remember what a unique idea that was at the time. And here it is.

Next week I'm going to the Microsoft Hailstorm event. I don't know what it's about, and it's a non-disclosure event, so I won't be able to tell you until they announce it publicly. But I haven't signed the NDA yet, so I can speculate. First, I like the name Hailstorm. It's aggressive. I wonder whose head the hail is supposed to fall on. Hail is annoying, but rarely deadly. That's good. I'm always up for a good hailstorm. Why not.

OK, when Sun was getting ready to announce their answer to Dot-Net I said that either it was SOAP or it was irrelevant. Same with Hailstorm. Further, it's got to be about instant messaging. Therefore I conclude it's a SOAP interface for instant messaging. That's kind of what Jeremie and I talked about yesterday. So we can have an insurance policy, possibly a common API, and we (developers) get choice and can pass that on to users and feel good about doing the right thing. Maybe we should call our project Hail Harvester?

BTW, if you're a Microsoft person who reads Scripting News, come over to Building 33 on Thursday at lunchtime and tell me what you're working on. ";->"

This morning we're up to 49 upstreaming personal aggregators in Radio UserLand.

BTW, did you notice the product shot near the top of the page? We had some fun. Radio doesn't actually come in a box, but if it did, that's what it would look like.

You can include the box on your UserLand-hosted Manila site by entering "radioProductShot" including the quotes.

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