Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October 5, 1998.

Re: Asking Tim

Author:Russell Lipton
Posted:9/21/2000; 1:28:32 PM
Topic:Asking Tim
Msg #:21606 (In response to 21605)
Prev/Next:21605 / 21607

There is no doubt in my mind that Dave has been "picking fights" over RSS and, perhaps, to a smaller degree, over issues of respect. I start with that because it is highly relevant to my next point, not as a decision on my part to devolve into personalities or amateur psychoanalysis.

From the little that I have gotten to know of Dave, mostly here but also in private, he is passionate about "being real" (my words). I get it that he senses something unreal here, what he terms unfair. I can't speak to that evidentially - and I take at face value Tim O'Reilly's protestations that he has only been intermittently in the RSS loop.

That said, the critical role of Dave in RSS is hardly new news. "You could (indeed) look it up," as Casey Stengel used to say and as the DaveNet above rehearses one more time. Tim O'Reilly should indeed be familiar with that or long since have made himself familiar with it during the past few weeks. It is intensely relevant to the perhaps irretrievably messy misunderstandings of the recent past. That is, it ought to provide a basis for moving forward.

Though it has obviously been hard for Dave to let go of RSS, even *having* decided to do so, I believe Tim should (is responsible to) know Dave far better than I do after so many years in professional contact - ie, there are good reasons for Dave's ambivalence and frustration that go way beyond emotion, hurt, anger. They go to Dave's core personal integrity as a programmer and his convictions about the need for shared integrity on the Internet.

Userland never did own RSS yada-yada-yada - or claim to.

But, getting "real", Userland has been majorly dissed on a professional basis. It's understandable that Dave's anger gets in the way at times, but so what? In olden times (before, say 1950), passion was generally considered a sign that something mattered, before the days when cynical indifference became a positive virtue. What really counts is that this is a man who also apologizes sincerely and moves on with others whenever possible - and you can look that up too.

The solution with RSS is amazingly simple.

O'Reilly(net) should simply acknowledge Dave/Userland's historic role with the protocol (not just formally but substantially) and do its professional best to support the simpler fork that Dave (and many others) urge while also supporting RSS 1.0 if-and-as it chooses. (I'll leave the naming conundrum aside for now). How make this real? It's not so hard.

. Simple, honest retelling of the RSS history and user experiences to date (important for the future anyway).

. Ongoing articles that cover both sides of the fork.

. Parallel support for RSS 0.92 along with RSS 1.0.

This isn't just a long post written to flap my mouth. This is a sober, specific proposal on my part. Hey, I'm a writer - I'll write the article(s) if both "sides" want and do it for free. If I have to ;-)

(I've received enough help from both O'Reilly over many years and Userland recently that it would be a pleasure).

As for the P-to-P conference? Radio Userland has much to offer O'Reillynet and the industry. In my experience, leaders who get past the mud end up doing mind-blowing things together. Let's put the RSS crap behind both communities and move forward. That Dave is "stuck" on this is more of an indication of the issue's authentic importance, imho, than any personality defect, so-called.

To sincerely repeat words not unknown on this URL, "thanks for listening".

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