Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October 5, 1998.

scriptingNews outline for 4/26/2000

Author:Dave Winer
Posted:4/26/2000; 5:10:17 AM
Topic:scriptingNews outline for 4/26/2000
Msg #:16691
Prev/Next:16690 / 16692

It's public!

SOAP 1.1 Specification. Authored by DevelopMentor, IBM, Lotus, Microsoft and UserLand.

Microsoft press release. Companies supporting SOAP 1.1 include ActiveState Tool Corp, Ariba Inc, BORN, Information Services Inc, Commerce One Inc, Compaq Computer Corp, DevelopMentor Inc, Extensibility Inc, IBM, IONA Technologies PLC, Intel Corp, Lotus Development Corp, ObjectSpace Inc, Rogue Wave Software Inc, Scriptics Corp, Secret Labs AB, UserLand Software and Zveno Pty. Ltd.

We've started a SOAP weblog. I hope this will become a place where developers help each other getting SOAP deployed on as many platforms and in as many environments as possible.

What about "XML-RPC"? It's still the most widely deployed and simplest XML-over-HTTP protocol.

What's next? There will be a lively discussion about this stuff, for sure, at WWW9 in Amsterdam, next month.

Mid-day news

John Dvorak: The Coming Depression.

News.Com: "RealNetworks is using portions of's open-source browser code in a private-label version of its media player and server created for Web broadcaster Global Media. This version lets RealNetworks' system stream and display Web elements including HTML and Macromedia Flash animation files."

PC Week: The basic failure of XML is its premise. "The automakers chose to bypass BizTalk and OASIS to develop proprietary (but published) schemata. Every big organization will do the same, and though some of their XML work may feed back up to OASIS or BizTalk, every one wants standards for their cliques only."

Marc Canter: "MediaBar was a venue-based technology platform that utilized a Mac front-end written in Lingo and Director with a Sun-based Informix back end." Classic Marquis Decanter bluster, a couple of years old. We should all be able to listen to our own two-year-old bluster. Heeks.

Early Morning Edition

Jake Savin is working on DHTML Menus. The goal for this project is to replace Manila's Editors Only menu (which is flat) with a menu bar that has depth. This will allow us to add more features to Manila without overwhelming the editor with commands at the top of the screen. We want to make the menus emulate what desktop users have become accustomed to. We asked the browser vendors (MS and NS) to support this directly in the browser. Only got a response from Brad Pettit, who said to do it in DHTML. OK, we're trying. Anyway, since we're going to share the code on this, I asked Jake to open the project so everyone could see what we're doing and perhaps help. Please be kind, Jake is the newest member of our team. ";->"

Joel Spolsky: "Hotel bathtubs have big grab bars to help disabled people, but everybody uses them to get out of the bathtub. They make life easier even for the physically fit."

Dan Gillmor had dinner with Steve Ballmer. Gillmor paraphrasing Ballmer. "Simply put, we -- the technology users of the world -- need Microsoft, because it takes a company of this size and talent and direction to solve some kinds of problems and invent some kinds of products." Hmmm. I was just thinking the opposite. Microsoft gets concerned that Marc Andreessen is going to eat their lunch. They charge into Web browsers, pretty much ignoring the developers. They win. Stagnation.

Gordon Eubanks: "Microsoft has never been weaker in recent years. The future is Web-based computing and that is not where Microsoft's core competence is."

Zeldman: "Getting over a two-day DSL blackout is like recovering from a cold. The instant you feel better, you're running hatless in the rain, choking on Chesterfields, and partying 'til all hours. We spent at least eight hours yesterday putting out fires instead of getting work done." Same here!

Grant Rauscher, an engineer at Broadband Mechanics, responds to Brian Behlendorf.

On some days, like today, the story is finished at 7AM. Look at how it flows. We work around the brain-dead browsers; Joel, a former Microsoft employee says that we have to design for users who don't care (true); Dan Gillmor quotes Steve Ballmer pleading for his right to dominate us; Gordon Eubanks says it doesn't matter because the Web isn't in their blood; Zeldman and Rauscher, true web developers, ground us in the reality of our day (open source people are equally clueless, and you can't buy a decent net connection).

It's all a matter of point of view. Awakening happens when we consider the validity of other povs.

An email to Tim O'Reilly, cc'd to lots of other people. "Guys, to me this is the thrill of the Web. On a personal level, this is the jumping out of the plane with no parachute feeling. You can see your reflection in someone else's mind. Of course no one likes this. Why? Ask me in a year, I'll tell you."

Simple Gifts: "Til by turning, turning, we come round right."

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