Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October 5, 1998.

Re: Open Office

Author:cameron@collab.net
Posted:8/23/2000; 4:17:08 PM
Topic:scriptingNews outline for 8/23/2000
Msg #:20014 (In response to 20004)
Prev/Next:20013 / 20015

Dave removes messages that are "personally abusive"? The problem here is that Dave doesn't follow that rule with his own posts. Numerous times over the past few weeks I have read posts that are very close to being "personally abusive" written by none other than Dave Winer himself.

I admire the anti-flame policy but wish Dave would hold his own posts to the same standards.

Examples: 19893, 19900, 19902, 20016

Using swear words, veiled threats, and generally dissing another person's work in a public forum is very rude and offensive regardless of whether you own and moderate that forum or mailing list.

I can already predict what the response to this post might be:

I've lost a lot of respect for Dave over the past few months as I've watched him bash one person (Brian Behelndorf) after another (Tim O'Reilly and O'Reilly & Associates) after another (R.V. Guha) after another (Edd Dumbill). I still respect the work Dave does for the community but am tired of the negative attitudes he brings to the various projects and companies I am involved with.

I've stood by and watched as Dave has complained and raised important questions around things such as RDF/RSS and the O'Reilly investment in Pyra. I get the impression that Dave sees himself as a valuable critic and journalist, but am not convinced that he has left his bias at home as most good journalists do. Instead, I get the impression that Dave feels like he's being left out of the loop regarding some emerging technologies and software development movements. Dave said he was "hurt" because O'Reilly didn't disclose information about the Pyra investment. Jeez Dave, after the way you've treated the people at O'Reilly and in the open source movement, how can you expect that people are going to inlcude you in anything they do?

It really does boil down to a simple matter of respect. If you respect others, they will respect you in return. If you offer constructive criticsm in the right way, your input will be valued. If all you do is complain and say nasty things about something you care about, you will be seen as nothing but a complainer.

That said, I still admire Dave and Userland software. I'm glad that they are tackling the important issues that they are. I just hope that Dave uses a bit more discretion in his posts. Both Scripting News and this discussion forum are quickly becoming places I'd rather not be. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

Thanks, - Cam

Disclosure: I work for Collab.Net, a company that O'Reilly is an investor in.

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